When is it ok to lie to your spouse?
So, I've been pondering this, because the ex seems to think that his lies are not a big deal. And we just had a lovely conversation about how his lying is the root of my issues with him and the reason to dissolve this union and for him to move out.
It came up because he wanted to know my opinion about a place he looked at and if I thought he should take it. It's a crappy place and normally, I'd say no. I told him the only reason I was pushing for him to leave was that he continues to lie. That he left the house, didn't say where he was going, and was adding exposure risk to the kid. He then said I put the kid at more risk because of the hike. And that I did that. I pointed out that we went on the hike and it was a joint decision. And that was my point — he was making decisions for himself and his benefit, and not with all of us in mind. And he claims he asked the kid to go with him to fly a kite. But strangely, the kid had no idea where he was that day (he wanted to go scootering with him). So, either the kid forgot, or the ex was lying.
He likes to say “if I tell people what I lied about, they wouldn't think it was a big deal.” He really likes to focus on what he lied ABOUT — and not that he lied. And he kept asking what else I knew he lied about. So, certainly not making me feel like I know close to all of the lies with that line of questioning.
I told him that I flat-out don't trust him. That that's what happens after you hear enough lies. He started talking about his list of issues with me (I knew he had one!), but not that he wanted to talk about any of it.
And he said he plans on telling everyone why the marriage ended and that they'd all find it petty. And I pointed out that he'd likely not tell them everything/the truth. He claims he will. I told him that if he did that, I'd counter. At one point, he told me he didn't even think of those things as lies.
I asked him how often he felt I lied to him. Lied with the intent to deceive. Not “white lies.” He couldn't answer that. He tried to answer a different question. I redirected back to my actual question. Then he said he was done. He said that a few times. He didn't want to talk about it. Because he couldn't recall a time I'd lied to him.
So... I did some googling, because I'm just finding it hard to swallow that so many people (per the ex) find it ok to lie in a marriage.
And sure enough, I found something that summed up how I feel:
“Looking at the correlation between the lying/lied-to scales, it seems likely that the people higher on both measures are also lower in intimacy. They prefer not to tell, or know, the truth about their partners. In fact, in a dissertation cited by Hart and his team, deception frequency was correlated with lower relationship satisfaction. Relationship satisfaction is a key ingredient of high intimacy. Telling lies to your partner may feel, to you, like you’re doing your partner a favor. Over time, though, you’re not doing a favor to your partner or your relationship.”
(Psychology Today: When, if Ever, is it OK to Lie to Your Partner)
One of the ex's gripes — I was cold and didn't initiate sex. Shocker. I told him, yes, that was true. He claims I'd always been that way with him. I don't remember it that way. I remember it changing. I remember being much less interested in him after the first round of lies. I even recall when he'd do things a little differently — and my immediate thought was “who taught him this — he was just on a trip. What was he doing on the trip?” Yeah... probably an indicator I was having doubts and difficulty trusting him.
So, yeah, it's beyond time. But it makes me wonder — do that many people lie to their spouses and find it acceptable??? Am I really an outlier in this?